VSK Match Forum

Nemesis ST
NST

Members:
- Kent38
- Lumba
- Crosswave

Crosswave is still announced as admin for Norsteam.
so maybe better to change this fact first before to be listed in 2 teams.

Fixed

Guys!

This is not a good way to form a team. I thought (was told) it was just a split of a team that got too big. Now I just learned that the original team will be put on ice, so this is not a contribution to the team racing community, but rather the opposite.

This is not professional sailing. You don't make money from it. All you can win is a good feeling and appreciation from the other teams. But the appreciation would have been limited if you formed a team with 3 members who does not share citizenship, language or club membership, and were not even individuals without a team originally.

Real water TR limit team entries to country representation. In VSK, we have many clubs across borders, and VSK teams has been formed based on either country representation or (major) club membership. Teams has generally figured this on their own. However, now it has become necessary to formalize this in the VTC SI.

Harald

As requested by ITBYC SI 1.3, we will represent our major club VSK Fun

Quentin

Haralds reasons are serious! To add vskfun as club (a club where you take part at tournaments but never took part in the "clublife") is imo the wrong way to solvve this prob. Its really a mess that teams change every year. 3 members of a team build a new team and the old team is on hold/ice. i cannot find any reasons for that (same with Nano-Denmark, Warriors-CRT 2).
Just my oppinion. Matthias

I don't understand what we did wrong? We had a very large team 2 years ago, and we had a training session weekly, but people weren't very active here. That's why we had to make a smaller team, from the original team we had only 4 (3) members left: Steelviking, Rakosi, Rudolf and me (Miniden), but Steelviking told us that he wouldn't get time to do the team races, and now we had 3 members left, which wasn't enough in our opinion, because of that we found a new team member from Australia, and to show it was a new team than earlier we changed the name.

Regards Miniden

no reason to build a new team..why not racing for team denmark with the new team member?

That's exactly what happened, Mathias. We did not accept their new team (nano), but said like you do now, that they should bring the new team member to the original team. However, they didn't understand that they should use the original team name, which has caused alot of confusion. Now their team name is Team Nano Denmark, and they should also use this for external registration.

CRT Warriors were split in two (CRT2 and WST), and they have both entered in WTRC.

The 3 nemesis sailors are not representatives of VSK Fun. The rules are written to avoid a development on the VSK TR scene that we do not want to see. Proforma creations will of course not solve such problems. I'm afraid this has to be specified in even clearer words, and with interpretations, but it should not be hard to avoid bending the rules.

As for members of Norwegian Steam, they are currently participating in team league. Their campaign will be over in the end of February, which technically means that they have to wait until the end of March before joining a new (valid) team. Ref SI 1.6.2.

Harald

euphoria wrote:That's exactly what happened, Mathias. We did not accept their new team (nano), but said like you do now, that they should bring the new team member to the original team. However, they didn't understand that they should use the original team name, which has caused alot of confusion. Now their team name is Team Nano Denmark, and they should also use this for external registration.

Damn after 2 years I understand the problem:D, but now the problem is solved!

Teams are judicial persons, not natural, they exist independant of their members.

Deviding a team, means that a team is broken up in parts and these parts continue as a separate entities.

The articles in SI 1.6 of the SI are meant to keep teams from "hiring" skippers, an action that is directed (solely) at giving a team an advantage they would otherwise not have.
The SI for the VTC as of 14.02.2010 (last time i looked) allow a team to split in parts without any consequences for skipper like being blocked for sailing or otherwise. In th SI the status of parts is not mentionend beyond the original "old" team. However logically the parts are old too ... members, ranking and rating etc. stem from the original...
"If a team is devided in two teams, then there is no suspension. The original team keep position and stats"
unfortunately for administrative reasons devision of teams has led to creating new stats, ranks, names for the split-off part.

The only reason for splitting where the old would dissolve is where the parts make up less then the whole, aka the sole remaining admin is inactive, a sole remaining member has registered the team name as trade mark etc. The original team (that is no longer eligible to race) will automatically default to inactive team.

SI for the World Team Racing Championship 2010 are not published yet, so at present there is no connection, meaning sailing for the WTRC 2010 is at no time limited by events in the VTC, nor is a skipper blocked from sailing for the WTRC 2010 when that skipper is blocked from sailing a match for the VTC. The WTRC 2010 NOR only makes registration of a team at the VTC manditory.

If the past is anything to go by, the VTC ranking and or rating will be used to draw groups for round robins in the WTRC, this to avoid a situation where better teams eliminate eachother in the first round, while less good teams survive the first rounds by lack of opposition.

As always take good note of applicable rules and regulations and if you are not sure, you can always request for redress with the protest committee or request some statement from the race committee or other authorities.

Obviously a teams eligebility for particiaption, as well as the skippers eligibillity to sail for a team will be regulated in NOR and or SI so you have to keep track of those.

For VTC go here: http://itbyc.org/vtc/si.php
For WTRC 2010 go here: http://www.wtrc.vskfun.com/
For ITBYC adapted Appendix D of the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing go here: http://www.itbyc.org/appendix-d.php

Dear admins/RC and everyone responsible.

First of all i'm offended by your TOPIC name change.

Secondly please rename it to the original name Nemesis ST as we want to enter a new team not something you call ˝controversial˝.

And finally please gives us an answer in YES or NO your team is/not accepted. (it's just simple as that).

Regards, Dejan

Dejan,

As explained to the other members of your team, the topic was renamed because
- at that time it was not possible to register the team due to VTC SI 1.3.
- the topic had turned into a discussion also regarding other teams having issues on the same subject

It was not the intention to offend, and I'm sorry that I did.

Now as an agreement between the VTC (ITBYC) RC and the WTRC RC, VTC SI 1.3 has been put on hold until after WTRC 2010, and I have renamed the topic title back to the original.

The RC has been (still is) working on your request sent to the WTRC RC in detail.

Here are some general clarifications, which should give the answers to two key questions in your request:

1. A team can't be formed unless it has at least 3 members (VTC SI 1.1).
2. You can not be a member of two teams at the same time.
3. You are a member of your original team if you continue to race for it.
4. The one month quarantine also applies from the date of the last race performed for the original team (VTC SI 1.6.2).

So in your case, a new team can't be created by the 3 skippers in question until after you have ended your TL campaign for NOR Steam. The 3 skippers in question can't race for the new team at WTRC until one month after the date of the last race performed for NOR Steam.

Harald