VSK Match Forum

Posted: **08 Feb 2011 23:30**

There are 3 Protests:

1.) 2.08 Replay time. Stalker vs. JayJay (16.1 vs. 11)
2.) 9.20 Replay time. NuuK vs. Julien: There was contact (watch replay) 11 vs. 16.1 (vsk dont gave a penalty)
3.) 10.58 Replay time. Stalker vs. JayJay 10 vs. 15

Unfortunately we couldnt solve this, as nobody was there on TS (or in the chat). Thats why we have to go this way, what is not recommendable.

Holger

Posted: **08 Feb 2011 23:57**

1.) not sure, contact occured because STALKER rotated his stern into Jay by bearing. 16.1? or was Jay already in the zone of immediate contact?
2.) no contact
3.) 10 Jay

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 00:01**

Race 1 between Julien/Stalker and Stibra/TiGER

5:38 TiGER overlapped leewards by STALKER both port tack, Julien row as stb boat.
5:41 STALKER as row boat to TiGER decides to sail astern of row boat too late, no possibility of TiGER to sail astern as well
in order not to break rrs 14 TiGER does not bear down and force a contact but tack instead of to keep clear.
Protest towards STALKER was hailed in the chat by TiGER.
The other team did not protest but responded with "no" in the chat.

Refering to TR Call D10 Question 2:

http://game.finckh.net/reg_gbr/trcal/d10.htm

Question 2
The situation is the same, except that at position 1 B hails "no room". X tacks and protests. What should the call be?

Answer 2
In this case, it is clear to X that B will not give room. X complies with rules 11 and 14 by tacking.
B and X are overlapped when they are at the obstruction and rule 19.2(b) requires B to give X room between her and the obstruction. Penalize B as she fails to give room.

At 5min41 it is clear that Stalker does not provide room to TiGER thus he tacked to keep clear.

rrs 19 broken by STALKER?

This happened in race 1 (server 1)

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 00:02**

euphoria wrote:This is not TL
You may write boat names instead of codes...

Easier if you upload replay without putting in zip file fist too.

Harald

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 01:14**

TiGER wrote:1.) not sure, contact occured because STALKER rotated his stern into Jay by bearing. 16.1? or was Jay already in the zone of immediate contact?
2.) no contact
3.) 10 Jay

Thanks Jan. As case 1 is not that easy, we can be agree on a 16.1 (Stalker did his turn, so no problem at all). When in case 2 is no contact, than there is no pen. So all depends on case, which is imho very clear. And I can be agree with you, that its a 10.

Holger

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 01:18**

TiGER wrote:5:38 TiGER overlapped leewards by STALKER both port tack, Julien row as stb boat.
5:41 STALKER as row boat to TiGER decides to sail astern of row boat too late, no possibility of TiGER to sail astern as well
in order not to break rrs 14 TiGER does not bear down and force a contact but tack instead of to keep clear.

Refering to TR Call D06 Question 2

http://game.finckh.net/reg_gbr/trcal/d06.htm

rrs 19 broken by STALKER?

This happened in race 1 (server 1)

Sry I personally dont see a Problem. Why u just did not try to go behind? Maybe you saw that posibility too late? But to Protest because of a tactical mistake is not that good. If u had tried to go behind, Stalker still gave you room, or not (which caused to a penalty).

Holger

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 01:24**

I was bound to rrs 11 thus i could not bear down.
When Stalker finally bear down to go behind at 5:41 there was no way for me to bear down too without breaking rrs 10 to Julien.

Since at that moment it was clear that Stalker did not provide room to keep clear by sailing astern i tacked to keep clear as in Call D10:

In this case, it is clear to X that B will not give room. X complies with rules 11 and 14 by tacking.

To comply with rrs 19 shouldn't have Stalker beared down earlier?

Is it allowed for him to go straight till i cannot bear down to sail astern of the row boat, too?

Do i have to bear down before he bears down to sail astern?

How could i have known before he beared that he would not tack?

By bearing down, intentionally breaking rrs 10 to Julien and/or rrs 11 to Stalker, just because i maybe would be exonerated by 64.1, i would have done a crashtest sailing we all usually abuse.

Please explain.

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 14:47**

Race 1 between Julien/Stalker and Stibra/TiGER

I don't see rules break. I think Tiger no had way to pass behind boat on right side.
Tiger tacks and respect rules 10. I dont' see 19 break IMO.
But it is an interesting case. I wait too for other opinions.
Bye

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 15:00**

Lorenzo

I think Tiger no had way to pass behind boat on right side

Exactly, that's what i am pointing at.

Holger:

Why u just did not try to go behind?

By deliberately breaking rrs 11?

Holger:

Maybe you saw that posibility too late?

At which time you saw that possibility in the replay?

But to Protest because of a tactical mistake is not that good.

With mistake you mean avoiding contact, keeping clear by tacking when there is no other way without creating collision?

If u had tried to go behind, Stalker still gave you room, or not (which caused to a penalty)

Again, in this situation it would have meant bear down, ramming another boat, breaking rrs 11 (and rrs 14) intentionally, a sailing style i thought one should avoid.

If TR Call D10 does not apply here please explain why not? What are the differences?

Answer 2
In this case, it is clear to X that B will not give room. X complies with rules 11 and 14 by tacking.
B and X are overlapped when they are at the obstruction and rule 19.2(b) requires B to give X room between her and the obstruction. Penalize B as she fails to give room.

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 17:29**

2.) 9.20 Replay time. NuuK vs. Julien: There was contact (watch replay) 11 vs. 16.1 (vsk dont gave a penalty)

Sure sign of LAG, where is the other replay? (actually 4 in total?)

Edit: counted 4 or 3 protests? Can' see if Replays are from oposing skippers.

Replay by Nuuk, Replay by Tiger... and the others admit fault?

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 17:44**

tiGER 09.16 Stalker, since you are involved in the discussion about yesterday's rpc you should give your opinion

1- Jay broke rule 11
3- Stalker broke rule 15

Situation 1 race at top mark (Tiger vs Stalker)- no broke rules

P.S. Pobeda not written, it was originally an admin event-
"Sailing under the RRS with Appendix D for VSK. Concider contact has been made if VSK gives pen for rule 11, 12, 15, 16 or 18. However this should be default info.... Protests to be solved on team speak or in the forum (after the last race of the day)."

If it would have been written, it would be easier)))

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 18:01**

stalker wrote:Situation 1 race at top mark (Tiger vs Stalker)- no broke rules

Stalker, in order to understand your opinion it might be helpful if you would explain your point of view.

Why does not TR Call D10 apply, where is the difference?

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 18:16**

OK;) sry Tiger, I have not looked at the replay, now looked and saw that the broken rule 19

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 18:40**

Thanks very much for your opinion.

In order to get it absolutely clear for me and all of us if rrs 19 was broken or not (for the future, for the wtrc) i would like to get the opinions of the experts.

Posted: **09 Feb 2011 18:52**

TiGER wrote: i would like to get the opinions of the experts.

hehe)) is a joke ???))) I vsk5 only 3 months)))

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