VSK Match Forum

TRC 2020 03 11 Sova vs Shuraz R19

to SoVa rule 17 does not apply
Shuraz say RTT on 0:08 sec.
SoVa wanted to go aft at JieL.
SoVa say P
Protest SoVa correct ?


Im found a similar call in CallBook for TeamRacing 2017 TR CALL G6

if rule 17 applies to an SoVa
Question1:
what a call should say SoVa if he decides to go on top of JieL ?

Question2:
1. above proper course - if Shuraz you need to drop the spinnaker ?
2. or above 90 to true wind ?
3. or higher than 90 towards the direction of the mark ?

Hi Aleks,

You can't hail RTT when you are sailing downwind. Only when you are sailing close hauled...
Tack means change tacks through head to wind. Gybe means change tacks through dead downwind.

It is the right of way boat (Sova) who choses what side to pass the obstruction on.
When Sova luffs to go behind Jiel, Shuraz has to respond.
If Shuraz broaches or for another reason has to make an unseamanlike move, then Sova has broken rule 16.1.

Harald

understand.

what it means to go above the "proper course" in CallBook for TeamRacing 2017 TR CALL G6 ?

OK TY Harald, I understand too. In my mind it was too late for Sova and Shura to go behind me. It is rule 19.2b which applied.

I read the case G6 which is very similar the Sova-Shura-Jiel case except 17 is on in G6. It is why it is written "B must not sail above her proper course". However to go behind Y is a proper course for B.

It is the "room" definition which contains the "seamanlike" word. In consequence each time a boat moves to take the room she is entitled to take, she must do in a seamanlike way. So now I (post)protest for all the times I was trapped by 18.2b when I had put my nose between the mark and the oponant who changed abrutly course to take his room BUT at the same to put me to hit the mark : it was not a seamanlike way because I had now no way to give the room properly. Do you agree Harald ?

Cheers,
Jean-Luc

jiel wrote:
It is the "room" definition which contains the "seamanlike" word. In consequence each time a boat moves to take the room she is entitled to take, she must do in a seamanlike way. So now I (post)protest for all the times I was trapped by 18.2b when I had put my nose between the mark and the oponant who changed abrutly course to take his room BUT at the same to put me to hit the mark : it was not a seamanlike way because I had now no way to give the room properly. Do you agree Harald ?

Cheers,
Jean-Luc

sorry, I can not understand your thought without a picture.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f7WHqd ... sp=sharing

This is not related to the video but concerns 18 and mark room

Wind from south
Next mark full east

1 : let suppose B under 18.2b
2 : A sails to west, so mark room is given, and B may sail between A and the mark
3 : A changes course, In My Opinion, now mark room is to avoid B because mark room is the room when sailing in a seamanlike way. If A hits B then is not seamanlike way.
4 : A hitted B. in my opinion, A violated rule 18.2b by taking more room that those she is entitled by the mark room definition.

you need to apply rule 21.

jiel wrote:It is the "room" definition which contains the "seamanlike" word. In consequence each time a boat moves to take the room she is entitled to take, she must do in a seamanlike way. So now I (post)protest for all the times I was trapped by 18.2b when I had put my nose between the mark and the oponant who changed abrutly course to take his room BUT at the same to put me to hit the mark : it was not a seamanlike way because I had now no way to give the room properly. Do you agree Harald ?

Hehe, no I dont agree at all...
It's the opposite - the boat that has to give room, shall not force the keep clear boat to make an unseamanlike move.
She is entitled to room to make a seamanlike turn, but not more.

The boat entitled to room, may volunteer to make an unseamanlike move.
Btw, turning with full rudder isn't necessarily unseamanlike, it can even be your proper course some times.

Harald

Well, OK I understand and I will line up with the current practice. In fact in our competitions, we would turn on rule 14 but I guess you already discussed that in the past.
TY again Harald !

Jean-Luc