Sunday February 13th ITBYC sunday night

[NuuK(Soulwave)]

Short before the finish. Replay time: ~10.10

Casino vs. Julien.

Vsk gave out a 13 (Casino didnt wrote rtt).

[casino]

just to note: also Holger did not wrote RTT and tacked. when Nuuk tacked no time to write anything, i was happy to react on the tack by Holger.

[NuuK(Soulwave)]

Ok, we couldnt solve this case, may it it too comlex for us.
Event still not closed, we need more opinons on this one (who are the educated judges )

Happy to read your opinions,
Holger

[TiGER]

11/17, 6mini38sec

[NuuK(Soulwave)]

11/17, 6mini38sec

On TS we were agree that 17.1 is not broken. Tiger still is in bad air and sailed his proper course. Also here, other opinions are welcome to solve this case.

Holger

[Lyr]

Hi!

Time in first case would be helpful.
But if it is the case at 10:20 i would say its a 15 to nuuk. I had the same case 2 years ago... I was tacking and my plan was to go behind, but boat on port cannot anticipate that and react promptly with a tack to avoid starboard. Contact was cause of the tack of nuuk.
Additional it could be a 11 to Julien because Julien is bearing very much before and no last reaction to the luff and tack of casino... but not sure


Second case i think its a clear 11 to casino.


cheers jan

[casino]

case 11/17 tiger/casino

i was sailing all the time over proper course. 17 was on the whole time.
contact was amed by tiger while luffing (imo also over his proper course) tws was over 26, so imo a twd about 152 is over proper course.

[TiGER]

Matt, in the chat you first admitted that you sailed at 154 twa.

As responded in the chat it is my proper course which is the reference to rrs 17, not yours.
Regarding me sailing in your bad air a twa of 156-158 is absolutely realstic for me.
Even if you go for 152 TWA i would go for 154-156 which would comply with the definition of proper course on a downwind:

Definition Proper course: A course a boat would sail to !!!finish as soon as possible!!! in the absence of the other boats...
Going downwind it is even possible to luff in order to ride a wave in order to go faster (which i would do if i would sail without a boat around but i did not do in this situation) complying with rrs 17.

Please tell me the exact racetime when i have created contact by luffing. If you watch the replay from 6min20sec you can see the white waves behind my boat in an absolute straight line.

Finally, just to specify the rules, is sailing 2 degrees higher on a downwind leg (154-156 instead of 156-158 twa) already going over proper course? Regarding VMG (which is important for "fastest way" i think it even does not matter if you go 156 or 158. Proper course does not mean an exact twa of a certain number).
I know that we are talking about vsk but in real life you may not even notice 2-3 degrees, or your boat/sails/specification is trimmed differently to your opponent.

[casino]

Jan, pls stop trying to explain RRS 17 to me as i know the rule....
for sure no 17 was broken if you are not luffing over YOUR proper course.
but i was luffing clear over my proper course and i have doubts you were all the time not over your proper course and its visible i do not bear.
as i said, i was talking all the time about YOUR proper course.
as its maybe a decision about 2-3 degrees i don t care about outcome of the race.
btw: 2 more situations in the race were protested:

at 8:40 Julien protest for broken RRS 17 by Bimbo
at 9:40 you protested for breaking RRS 10 by casino

imo at 8:40 Bimbo broke RRS 17
imo at 9:40 you broke RRS 16,1

Regards, Matt

[NuuK(Soulwave)]

Hi!

Time in first case would be helpful.
But if it is the case at 10:20 i would say its a 15 to nuuk. I had the same case 2 years ago... I was tacking and my plan was to go behind, but boat on port cannot anticipate that and react promptly with a tack to avoid starboard. Contact was cause of the tack of nuuk.
Additional it could be a 11 to Julien because Julien is bearing very much before and no last reaction to the luff and tack of casino... but not sure


Second case i think its a clear 11 to casino.


cheers jan

I get a 16.1 and I took the pen. But the more I check the replay, the more i think that I could pass behind, when Matthias didnt tack (16.1 ??). But anyway I dont want to blame him for trying to keep clear, so just the 13 (Julien vs. Matthias) is important here. So no problem at all. I think it cant be an 11 for Julien is Matthias was htw (he get a 13 from vsk).

Holger

[casino]

imo Holger forced this situation by tacking.
i am not able to anticipate (and i don t have to) he wants to go behind.
so you cannot take the Julien/casino situation as a single situation.
you forced the situation, and just you got a 16,1 and took the pen you are still guilty for the sit Julien/casino imo.

[TiGER]

now today you come up with counter protests?

at 8 min 40 sec Bimbo broke 17 but exonerated by doing a 360.
The 16.1 which Nadeo gave was wrong imo, 11 broken by Julien, no 360 done.

at 9 min 40 i tacked and went behind Julien. In order to comply with 15 i luffed again to keep clear of you. A 9 min 42 you beared down below proper course (watch Juliens course at that moment) creating contact with my bow while i was tacking.
Even if i broke a rule here it is equalized with Julien's 11.

Anyway, how are protests resolved in a rpc race? With additional points like in 3vs3 races?
Or like several races already were decided with the first protest decides the race?
There should be a rule about that in the future.

[NuuK(Soulwave)]

Anyway, how are protests resolved in a rpc race? With additional points like in 3vs3 races?
Or like several races already were decided with the first protest decides the race?

Watch the SI from the VTC. The first Protest do NOT decide the race.

Holger

[TiGER]

Casino/Julien:

For me (and Heine and Holger yesterday, too) the problem is Holger tacked and was under 15.
You have to keep clear under 10 but you have no room to tack.

Without Julien you might have tacked to keep clear, Holger would have to stop bearing but start luffing in order to give you room to keep clear.
But since Julien was up there you had no room to tack neither was there room to sail astern of Holger. So your best (and only way imo) to keep clear would have been to go straight ahead.
If contact then it would be 15 or 16 to Holger.

For me the question now is if your 13 is exonerated by 64.1(c).

[casino]

now today you come up with counter protests?

i had to leave TS yesterday as i was in hurry (i told Holger).
both sits were protested in race yesterday, so no suprise ( i was not able to watch replay before), i was just wondering why you did not discuss this situation too.