RPC 11/02/2012

[ryh00]

Use this thread for communication, please.

[sergeisail]

You down on me.And when i luff you not go away

[RC-SkipperGER366]

Race 7 Server 2

RC-Skipper Protest vs FilipCro after P 11 cancel .
Replay Time 1:50 !

Sitution : Filip under Rule 11 , i am baer down and Contact at Stern , so have Filip not keep clear form me !

Luck Replay and answear here Filip !

I thinking we win Race wen you turn you Penantly !

cheers Jens !

update : Screenshot added, time changed to 1.40 Replay minute = start of the overlap of Astern of Filip, I can not maneuver without risking Contact RSS 16.1
Both are too early, before the starting line, Filip is not responding to keep clear, last chance to avoid an early start, let me fall away off the line

[Fix oder Nix]

Fix oder Nix start Mediation (Protest) in Race 7 Server 1 against Sergeisail

Me and Sergeisail windward from me came from Port and a approach 2 RoW Boats, leeward Ryh and to windward to him Croatia No1 i hailed RTT but i got no response from sergeisail. he just sailed his course At Replay Time 4:45 we approached the to RoW Boats and after i did my RTT Hail at least 4 sec. before ( Rhy will witness this ) i had to tack to avoid RoW Boat and to duck massively the stern of Sergeisail. Sergesail should be penalized by Rule 20.1b .

And Rule 20.1b said

20.1 Hailing and Responding
When approaching an obstruction, a boat sailing close-hauled or above may hail for room to tack and avoid another boat on the same tack. After a boat hails,
(b) the hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her; and

[Artur]

Race 7 Server 2

Artur vs RC Skipper.
Replay Time 5:15
Nade pen: 16.1 for Artur
Artur protest RC Skipper for rule 11

Sitution : RC Skipper under Rule 11 ,Artur luff, RC Skipper not answer, Artur luff again RC Skipper again not answer, when boats are very close, RC Skipper luff strongly and there is contact.


Screenshot with protest:

PRC.JPG (312.85 KiB) Viewed 11000 times

Replay:

TR Twist F6(01'01''88).Replay.Gbx

(369.82 KiB) Downloaded 523 times

[Fix oder Nix]

Hello Sergeisail,
could you please say something about this protest, I think it is necessary that we try to come here to a proper mediation.

I, as Chief Ump, will not look at protests that are not mediated properly.
These will go in dis favour of the teams who have not responded to the other teams points.


Harald,
RPC Chief Umpire

[euphoria]

I see a protest flag for race 5-1, but there is no protest/mediation.
Results stands with red winner...

Fix oder Nix start Mediation (Protest) in Race 7 Server 1 against Sergeisail

Me and Sergeisail windward from me came from Port and a approach 2 RoW Boats, leeward Ryh and to windward to him Croatia No1 i hailed RTT but i got no response from sergeisail. he just sailed his course At Replay Time 4:45 we approached the to RoW Boats and after i did my RTT Hail at least 4 sec. before ( Rhy will witness this ) i had to tack to avoid RoW Boat and to duck massively the stern of Sergeisail. Sergesail should be penalized by Rule 20.1b .

And Rule 20.1b said

20.1 Hailing and Responding
When approaching an obstruction, a boat sailing close-hauled or above may hail for room to tack and avoid another boat on the same tack. After a boat hails,
(b) the hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her; and

You have to quote the right rule. Read rule 20 modified in Appendix D for VSK5.
Protest dismissed. Result stands with red winner.

In race 7-2 there are protests from each team. No replies has been made to neither of them. The protests are btw very clear...
Two protests won by default by the protestors, which gives the same amount of penalty points. The result stands with blue winner.

The event results are official.

Harald S,
RPC Chief Umpire

[Fix oder Nix]

Sorry Chief Umpire,
but i really don´t know now why my protest is dismissed.

If i quote the right or not, take no influence on a valid Protest, IMO. If i would protest him for the wrong rule, ok i will understand this. But i did not. I Protest him for breaking Rule 20.1b not more or less. I Protest Sergeisail directly after the incident by Typing P Sergeisail for this Ryhoo ( Richard ) is witness.
At least he did nothing from that what the normal Rule 20.1b, requires from him, neither then the changed Rule for VSK, requires from him. And finally i avoided him with my bearing down after the Tack.

I put a Screenshot in the Forum with my Hail and a Replay as well. Started a proper Mediation. And again he did nothing. Last Time the Chief Umpire told:

I, as Chief Ump, will not look at protests that are not mediated properly.
These will go in dis favour of the teams who have not responded to the other teams points.


Harald,
RPC Chief Umpire

So imo, if i made something wrong in any words or quotes above, at least i did right to start and hold on a proper mediation, what as i said above, he never did. But any how, in my case, it seems it will not go in dis favor who have not responded..... it went in my dis favor.

And i disagree with this !

[RC-SkipperGER366]

Race 7 Server 2

Artur vs RC Skipper.
Replay Time 5:15
Nade pen: 16.1 for Artur
Artur protest RC Skipper for rule 11

Sitution : RC Skipper under Rule 11 ,Artur luff, RC Skipper not answer, Artur luff again RC Skipper again not answer, when boats are very close, RC Skipper luff strongly and there is contact.


Screenshot with protest:

The attachment PRC.JPG is no longer available

Replay:

The attachment TR Twist F6(01'01''88).Replay.Gbx is no longer available

Hi Artur and daer Umpire !

My point of view this is a totally different than yours.

As first RC-Skipper not luff but rather tacking !
as a second , yes was closely to both boats , thats Teamracing he luff receive penalty me !
I've seen my own replay, there was no contact.
The distance was in my view than in Arthur `s.
Thus his word against hers!
This is probably (once again, a time lag before the host, not the first time there was trouble between Arthur and RCSkipper (host), see VSKFun-
Trophy MR post:http://www.vskfun.com/VSKFunReloaded/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=65
I therefore request that the Protestsituation will is neutralized because time-shifting,!
Sincerely, RC Skipper!

[euphoria]

At least he did nothing from that what the normal Rule 20.1b, requires from him, neither then the changed Rule for VSK, requires from him. And finally i avoided him with my bearing down after the Tack.

Hi Alex. Sorry, it seems I didn't make my point clear.
If you compare the two versions of rule 20, you will note the difference that with VSK5 the windward boat does not have to respond to a RTT hail. She only have to give you room.

In this case, she gave you room to tack (there was already room available).
After you completed your tack, you have to give her room to keep clear under rule 15, which you did.
So no rules were broken.

Harald

[euphoria]

I've seen my own replay, there was no contact.

See VTC SI 3.8.3: "If the VSK Umpire gives a penalty according to RRS 11, 12, 15, 16, 18 or 31, it shall be assumed there was contact."
So the question is not whether contact has been made or not, but if 11 or 16.1 was broken.

Harald

[Fix oder Nix]

Ok, i got that point. and Accept it btw.

Just my thoughts to this for upcoming Races are, that it is for a RoW what i was between Sergei and me, a really dis Advanced Situation, because i was under 17 also he under 11. I have to do, of course my Hail early enough to let him full fill his requirements to don´t break any Rule. I have also to stay clear by Rule 17. What means i have to bear down before i tack, where he easily will follow and afterwards he can easily as well my bearing down interpret as Rule 19.2b. And finally i have to keep clear from the approaching starboard boat. And if i all count up what i have to full fill to make a valid Protest. Then it seems to me, that change that Rule 20.1b for VSK brings a huge disadvantage to a RoW boat what approach under the conditions, a RoW Boat from starboard.

[euphoria]

I don't think the VSK appendix changes the rule in that sense. It only removes the requirement from windward to start typing on the keyboard, which is very impractible... You don't have to bear away. 17 is not an issue.

Harald