Team Race training 2020.02.01

[Shura]

TR 2020 03 01 Samuel vs JieL
I change skins on boats.
but Im not sure what I changed correctly, write the correct team, I will fix the replay

[jiel]

Merci Shura !
OK looks like JIEL left the zone. From what I understand in reading 18, the parts 18.2b and c ceased to apply but 18.2a is still applying (inside boat has mark-room).
Hahaha 18 is a nerver-ending place to find new discussions.

[jiel]

Shura, if you please, I use your thread to eventually discuss the situation accuring at around t=7min between EUPHO and JIEL in the attached replay. The contact happened at 2 mm on the end stern EUPHO's boat and 70 ms before the JIEL's tack was finish (the numbers are only a joke of course). So I agree the JIEL's penalty is deserved. However which rule ?
1/ Because EUPHO is leaving the zone it would be a 11 breache ?
2/ Because the hull EUPHO' boat had part in the zone, he still is in the zone and R18 is the broken rule ?

To end, do you agree that if the tack was completed, then it would be a R10 breache for EUPPHO because JIEL stb, EUPHO port didnt keep clear but changed his course ?
Have a good day all,
Jean-Luc

No Way to attach the replay : "The extension gbx is not allowed" ? I will retry later.

[jiel]

OK I see Harald desactivated the GBX attachements. I will put a link to the file to be downloaded but later in the day ...

[euphoria]

Hi Aleks,
In this race, Jiel was red, Samuel was blue.

Jean-Luc, I never deactivated Gbx, but maybe I have never activated it in this forum?
It is possible in the TRC-forum for protests...
I had a quick look under admin settings, but didn't find it.
I will look more and let you know.

Harald

[Shura]

Hi Aleks,
In this race, Jiel was red, Samuel was blue.

Jean-Luc, I never deactivated Gbx, but maybe I have never activated it in this forum?
It is possible in the TRC-forum for protests...


Harald

TR 2020 03 01 Samuel vs JieL v.2



and another video


on top mark JieL vs Parus R10 .
I think penalty correct R10
Samuel vs Euphoria R15 for Euphoria

[Shura]

TR 2020 03 01 Ilya vs Shuraz R11 or 16 1

[euphoria]

looks like JIEL left the zone. From what I understand in reading 18, the parts 18.2b and c ceased to apply but 18.2a is still applying (inside boat has mark-room).

If Samuel was in the zone when Jiel left the zone, then it will be 18.2a for the rest of the rounding. And the one who is inside boat has right to room. In this case, it means that Jiel has right to room.
If Samuel was outside the zone when Jiel left it, then it will be a new entry for both, and conditons for 18.2b is checked again. In this case, it means that Jiel has not right to room.
So you have to find out if Samuel was in the zone when Jiel left it...

Harald

[euphoria]

on top mark JieL vs Parus R10 .
I think penalty correct R10
Samuel vs Euphoria R15 for Euphoria

At the top mark, it's hard to see from the video how much Jiel is luffing, and with luffing rule 16.1 comes into play, so it could be a green.

At the gybe at 2:15, I can't see why this should not be a 10, because Samuel is reacting slow, turns slow and even stops turning before he continues to turn.

Harald

[euphoria]

TR 2020 03 01 Ilya vs Shuraz R11 or 16 1

This case is very easy, you just have to find out wheter Shuraz had stopped bearing away or not before Ilya established overlap...
If overlap was established while Shuraz was bearing away, then it's a rule 11, rule 15 does not apply because Shuraz contributed to giving away right of way.
If overlap was established after Shuraz stopped bearing away, then it's a rule 15 on Ilya, as he have to give Shuraz room to keep clear (which he doesn't).

In these cases, it's very smart by leeward to not make contact, simply bear away and protest... Then it's impossible for leeward to get a pen, while windward will get pen nevertheless if she deservers it! On our servers, I often see too agressive sailing when it's a question of 15/16 vs 10/11/12/13.

Harald

[euphoria]

Jean-Luc, I never deactivated Gbx, but maybe I have never activated it in this forum?
It is possible in the TRC-forum for protests...
I had a quick look under admin settings, but didn't find it.
I will look more and let you know.

Now I found this setting, and it's possible to add replays also in this forum.

Harald

[jiel]

looks like JIEL left the zone. From what I understand in reading 18, the parts 18.2b and c ceased to apply but 18.2a is still applying (inside boat has mark-room).

If Samuel was in the zone when Jiel left the zone, then it will be 18.2a for the rest of the rounding. And the one who is inside boat has right to room. In this case, it means that Jiel has right to room.
If Samuel was outside the zone when Jiel left it, then it will be a new entry for both, and conditons for 18.2b is checked again. In this case, it means that Jiel has not right to room.
So you have to find out if Samuel was in the zone when Jiel left it...

Harald

OK I will not decide which case applies because the circles are not drawn but due to your explanations I have better understood the 18 especially the words, : " ...and at least one of them is in the zone".
All that is leading me to the question : Because it is difficult enought to be comfortable with the 18 applications, in real as well in VSK, it could be judicious, as soon as the situation is trouble to protest then, when at rest to think about the rule and according the result to withdraw or to hold the protest. In short, is it advisable to protest as soon as one has a doubt ? Is it allowed ?
Cheers
Jean-Luc

Also TY to Shura for the videos !

[samuel]

At the gybe at 2:15, I can't see why this should not be a 10, because Samuel is reacting slow, turns slow and even stops turning before he continues to turn.

Harald

Of course we can see. 1- take a look at distance between us. 2- do you really think could jive so fast without breaking 15? 3- yes due my mistake (not luffing a bit more hard) you get preference under rule 17. 4- if u hold your course as me then I break 17. 5 - explain to me why you think enought room and time without break 15.

[euphoria]

Because it is difficult enought to be comfortable with the 18 applications, in real as well in VSK, it could be judicious, as soon as the situation is trouble to protest then, when at rest to think about the rule and according the result to withdraw or to hold the protest. In short, is it advisable to protest as soon as one has a doubt ? Is it allowed ?

Yes, you may do that as long as it's reasonable doubt on the water.
But if there is no reasonable doubt, then a hail is "worth" 1 pen point according to D3.1(b) here:
https://team.vsk-match.com/appendix-d.php

Harald

[Shura]

thanks Harald !
You clearly explained everything.