VSK Match Forum

by **jiel** » 22 May 2020 21:15

From t=8'05" Ilya enters inside of Mac in the leeward mark zone. Mac gave the mark-room to Ilya to sail to the next mark. But Ilya luffed Mac who was under 11 so hardly that I think it is a 16.1 with no exonaration because the mark-room was given. What do you think ?
JL
(Hoping that Ilya will answer because you wanted I put the case in the forum)

by **Ilya** » 23 May 2020 10:48

I think he has not yet passed the mark room. rules 18.2.

by **Ilya** » 23 May 2020 10:56

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by **Ilya** » 23 May 2020 11:00

Us need to read the definition of "when the boat passed the mark."
I use common sense and think that if a yacht has passed the mark of 1/2 of its boat, then it has not yet passed the mark.
imo

by **jiel** » 23 May 2020 11:59

The fact that Mac passed or not the mark is of no importance here.
Rule 18 gives you mark-room whose definition is :

(a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and
(b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course.

You had the mark-room to sail to the next mark without to sail TO the mark.
You were allowed to luff Mac who is under rule 11 but changing course you must give him room to keep clear (18 is off because mark-room was given). So it is a 16.1 or a 15 for you In My Opinion. Very similar to what we discussed recently with Harald. Sorry but in my mind, the boat with the 18 has not all the rights to do what he wants but only what the rule gives her.
Very simple indeed

JL

by **euphoria** » 23 May 2020 12:32

Ilya has a free luff with no 16 to his proper course, which is towards the next mark.
After that, 16 applies, and in this case 16 was broken by Ilya.
If next mark was upwind, then pen on Mac.

Harald

by **Ilya** » 23 May 2020 15:21

jiel wrote:The fact that Mac passed or not the mark is of no importance here.
Rule 18 gives you mark-room whose definition is :
(a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and
(b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course.

You had the mark-room to sail to the next mark without to sail TO the mark.
You were allowed to luff Mac who is under rule 11 but changing course you must give him room to keep clear (18 is off because mark-room was given). So it is a 16.1 or a 15 for you In My Opinion. Very similar to what we discussed recently with Harald. Sorry but in my mind, the boat with the 18 has not all the rights to do what he wants but only what the rule gives her.
Very simple indeed
JL

Stop! How did you determine that I was given a place to pass the mark?

by **Ilya** » 23 May 2020 15:23

jiel wrote:The fact that Mac passed or not the mark is of no importance here.
Rule 18 gives you mark-room whose definition is :
(a) room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to it, and
(b) room to round the mark as necessary to sail the course.

You had the mark-room to sail to the next mark without to sail TO the mark.
You were allowed to luff Mac who is under rule 11 but changing course you must give him room to keep clear (18 is off because mark-room was given). So it is a 16.1 or a 15 for you In My Opinion. Very similar to what we discussed recently with Harald. Sorry but in my mind, the boat with the 18 has not all the rights to do what he wants but only what the rule gives her.
Very simple indeed
JL

did i pass mark? I think no.

by **jiel** » 23 May 2020 15:49

You didnt pass the mark. So ?
Have you mark-room at the instant just before you luffed to Mac ?
Is your proper course to luff to Mac ?
Is your proper course to sail to the mark ?
With the absence of Mac, would you luff to the mark to finish as soon as possible ?

Proper course :

A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term.

Being under front sail, to luff to increase your speed before to hoist the spi is your PC, I am ok with that. But I think you luffed much more than neccessary to increase speed and losed speed in luffing so much. In my opinion, it is clear not your PC. Mark-room was given. Of course, you may luff hard but you had to give room to keep clear to Mac. Still thinking it is a 16.1 penalty for Ilya.

JL

TY for interessing discussion